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[chess]

I think that I might have given some people here some wrong impressions in the past. So, I'd just like to clear a few things up.
1. I am a Christian.
2. This means that I believe in one God, who expresses Himself as a Trinity of people - God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
3. This also means that I believe all other gods/godesses/deities-of-any-description are fakes, invented by humans or by Satan to trap people and keep them away from God.
4. In addition, I believe that everyone who isn't a Christian is going to Hell.
5. Understandably, I would really rather all you people didn't go to Hell. Hence, I'm praying for you. And I'm going to keep praying for you. Even if you ask me not to.

So, there we go.

Comments

They would?

[passage.livejournal.com]

You're sure?

On what grounds?

I know that the catholic church differs on a number of theological points to the potestant churches but I didn't think it was anything this fundamental. Hmm, I'm going to have to hunt down a Catholic creed now.

Okay, a brief hunt (I don't really know what the approriate authortative place for Catholic stuff is, anyone know?) gave this website:
http://www.cin.org/kc50-1.html
Which said this:
"There is but one God and one Mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus, himself man, who gave himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:5). In Christ and in Christ only do we have a certain refuge of hope--apart from Him there is none. He is our judge now and in our final accounting."

So that's firm agreement with Michelle's #4.

As for #2: they consider the Nicene creed the foundation principle of their faith, so that follows automatically.

I think that probably kills #3 as well, if you disagree and feel the point is important I could do some more hunting.

Unfortuantly I know bascially nothing about the American Epsicopal Church, what is it that they believe?

Neil

Re: They would?

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

It's the American branch of the Anglican church (the same denomination whose English branch is the Church of England and whose Welsh branch is the Church in Wales).

Re: They would?

[elwe.livejournal.com]

I am not fully familiar with the Roman Catholic position (the only good thing I could find on it is http://www.beliefnet.com/story/41/story_4173_1.html . And I am also quite sure the Polish-Australian semanticist and universalist Anna Wierzbicka considers herself and is considered a perfectly orthodox Roman Catholic).

Now, the American Episcopal Church is in agreement with Michelle's statement concerning the Trinity (they, too, accept the Nicene Creed). They would also agree that "There is but one God and one Mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus, himself man, who gave himself a ransom for all." But they differ crucially on the point of whether people can be saved through Christ without intellectual belief in Christ. To my knowledge, Episcopalians are free to hold what opinion they choose on this point, and a great many (probably a majority) believe it is possible. And the Episcopal Church's active interfaith dialogue certainly rules out #3.

This view is not at all unknown in Christianity. A long list of orthodox mystics and theolgians have even gone so ar as to proclaim or speculate that all will be saved (Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, Julian of Norwich, George MacDonald, Nicholas Berdayaev, and quite a few 20th C figures).

So, basically, in my opinion at least, the general standard of orthodoxy in Christianity (the Nicene creed) would allow one to disagree with #3 and #4 while not rejecting #1 and #2.

Re: They would?

[chess]

Oh... dear. That kinda says something about the state of the Christian church, IMO.

Re: They would?

[firinel.livejournal.com]

That makes me incredibly happy.
The verse that I referred to in Luke suggests that this in a completely biblical standpoint to have.

Re: They would?

[passage.livejournal.com]

Woah ... hopefully I'm misunderstanding you here ... you think everyone's going to be saved?

Neil

Re: They would?

[firinel.livejournal.com]

No,
I think its up to God to decide who gets saved - that's Her job, not yours.
That's clearly stated in the Bible. That means you cannot judge people, even if they aren't Christian.
So, you've no place at all whatsoever, as neither does any Christian, to say that someone who is not Christian, is going to hell.

And as I've said - there's a perfectly valid biblical reason to believe that non-christians can, in fact, be let into heaven.

Re: They would?

[passage.livejournal.com]

Slightly off topic question, but still I think helpful:

Do you think I am allowed to be confident of my own salvation?

Neil

Re: They would?

[firinel.livejournal.com]

That's up to you.